Top end lubrication and ZDDP

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Unit562
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Top end lubrication and ZDDP

Post by Unit562 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:26 pm

As an automotive technician, I feel this is a subject that is all too ignored in the combustion world.
Anyone use top end lubricants like Marvel Mystery oil?
Does anyone sill add ZDDP to their oil or stick to high zinc oils?
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Re: Top end lubrication and ZDDP

Post by GAU-8 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:01 pm

Curious about the subject. I have never used them.

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Re: Top end lubrication and ZDDP

Post by radare » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:40 pm

Not me, no. Never had any lubrication issues with the top end and the Mobil1 synthetic oil works quite well. Others, maybe?

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Re: Top end lubrication and ZDDP

Post by Unit562 » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:57 pm

It's not that there's a problem, more that every thing can always be improved on.
ZDDP coats the inside of the engine and acts as a friction reducer, and will protect against dry starts.
Top end lubrication, like using Marvel Mystery oil in your fuel, helps lubricate the most ignored area's of an engine when it comes to lubrication.
I've got a 1985 Subaru GL, factory engine that's never been rebuilt, 279k on the clock and still runs strong. I firmly believe it's due to the additives I use.
One bad idea fuels most Bike Nights.
My Civic isn't a lawnmower, it's a weed whacker. Get it right, gosh.

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Re: Top end lubrication and ZDDP

Post by mikee112 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:36 am

Unit562 wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:57 pm
It's not that there's a problem, more that every thing can always be improved on.
ZDDP coats the inside of the engine and acts as a friction reducer, and will protect against dry starts.
Top end lubrication, like using Marvel Mystery oil in your fuel, helps lubricate the most ignored area's of an engine when it comes to lubrication.
I've got a 1985 Subaru GL, factory engine that's never been rebuilt, 279k on the clock and still runs strong. I firmly believe it's due to the additives I use.
You don't want any kind of friction reducer in a motorcycle engine... it will make the clutch slip :(
Unless of course you have a dry clutch ( Ducati ...ect )

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Re: Top end lubrication and ZDDP

Post by radare » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:56 am

mikee112 wrote:
Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:36 am
Unit562 wrote:
Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:57 pm
It's not that there's a problem, more that every thing can always be improved on.
ZDDP coats the inside of the engine and acts as a friction reducer, and will protect against dry starts.
Top end lubrication, like using Marvel Mystery oil in your fuel, helps lubricate the most ignored area's of an engine when it comes to lubrication.
I've got a 1985 Subaru GL, factory engine that's never been rebuilt, 279k on the clock and still runs strong. I firmly believe it's due to the additives I use.
You don't want any kind of friction reducer in a motorcycle engine... it will make the clutch slip :(
Unless of course you have a dry clutch ( Ducati ...ect )
That's a fine point, Mikee. To the OP, give it a shot and let's see what happens.

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Re: Top end lubrication and ZDDP

Post by Unit562 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:07 am

I'm very used to my bikes having separate engine oil and gearbox oil :p Seeing as my XJ's clutch is on the way out anyways, I'm going to see what the Zinc does to it.
One bad idea fuels most Bike Nights.
My Civic isn't a lawnmower, it's a weed whacker. Get it right, gosh.

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Re: Top end lubrication and ZDDP

Post by radare » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:54 am

Unit562 wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:07 am
I'm very used to my bikes having separate engine oil and gearbox oil :p Seeing as my XJ's clutch is on the way out anyways, I'm going to see what the Zinc does to it.
Do you plan to run a synthetic oil with the zinc? Have you considered diesel oil (like Rotella T6)? I've used it in the XJ in the past and its my go-to oil if they don't have motorcycle specific oil on the shelf.

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Re: Top end lubrication and ZDDP

Post by Jimbo » Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:48 pm

I swear by synthetic oils and use them in all of my vehicles, but I think it is important to make sure they are Jaso rated oils (certified for wet clutches) to prevent damage to the clutch plate surface in motorcycles so equipped. The (Rotella T6) that Radare suggested is synthetic and meets the Jaso rating. I have used it in my bikes for many years without issue. One of the best explanations that I have heard for describing a wet clutch is the analogy of a clutch works like sandpaper. A dry clutch wears and eventually will plug with the worn material. The wet clutch has the oil to wash the surface clean like water in wet sanding. Doesn't hurt the function of sanding, but keeps it clean. Additionally a wet clutch also benefits from the cooling effect of the oil too. Therefore, having "clean" oil is critical for extended operation and choosing an oil that has the Jaso rating for motorcycle wet clutches is important. Putting in additional additives without knowing the long term effects on the clutch surface scares me. So I don't do it. Just use a good "rated" oil and change it often.

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Re: Top end lubrication and ZDDP

Post by Unit562 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:44 pm

Jimbo wrote:
Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:48 pm
I swear by synthetic oils and use them in all of my vehicles, but I think it is important to make sure they are Jaso rated oils (certified for wet clutches) to prevent damage to the clutch plate surface in motorcycles so equipped. The (Rotella T6) that Radare suggested is synthetic and meets the Jaso rating. I have used it in my bikes for many years without issue. One of the best explanations that I have heard for describing a wet clutch is the analogy of a clutch works like sandpaper. A dry clutch wears and eventually will plug with the worn material. The wet clutch has the oil to wash the surface clean like water in wet sanding. Doesn't hurt the function of sanding, but keeps it clean. Additionally a wet clutch also benefits from the cooling effect of the oil too. Therefore, having "clean" oil is critical for extended operation and choosing an oil that has the Jaso rating for motorcycle wet clutches is important. Putting in additional additives without knowing the long term effects on the clutch surface scares me. So I don't do it. Just use a good "rated" oil and change it often.
I'm VERY particular about which oils I put in my engines. Amsoil Motorcycle and Mobil VR1 are the only products that go into my bikes, both of which are full synthetic and JASO rated.

The funny thing with adding ZDDP, (Which I just did and so far, the clutch is grabbing BETTER. probably a by-product of good oil more than anything else. Whatever I drained was definitely not 10w-40 motorcycle oil.) is all oil had it in their add packs up until around 2005-ish. These bikes were designed when ZDDP was an industry standard.
One bad idea fuels most Bike Nights.
My Civic isn't a lawnmower, it's a weed whacker. Get it right, gosh.

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