Cake's XJ 600 S

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radare
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Re: Cake's XJ 600 S

Post by radare » Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:38 pm

Great job on the buffing. Paint looks good.

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cake
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Re: Cake's XJ 600 S

Post by cake » Thu Sep 03, 2015 2:46 pm

Thanks.
Casper wrote:As far as crush washers go, the are not meant to be reused and need slightly greater torque applied or annealing if you want to reuse them.
Yeah, I know. That's why I measured them, so I could get a new one should it start to leak. Didn't know about the annealing though! That's a great tip.

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Re: Cake's XJ 600 S

Post by cake » Tue Sep 29, 2015 12:14 pm

Finally I've gotten around to do the carb overhaul I have wanted to do for quite some time. It wasn't as scary a procedure as I've feared. While it's possible to find several guides and pictures regarding the US carbs here on XJR, I wasn't able to find much on the the European one. I have therefore taken a bunch of pictures, in the hope that it might help someone else doing a overhaul on a similar carb. The carbs are from my 93' XJ 600 S.

A few notes:
  • I did not disassemble the butterfly valve.
  • I mostly took pictures of the assembly, so I guess this write-up is reverse of many guides when they state "assembly is the reverse of disassembly" :ponder:
  • I used the LiteTek seal kits. Both A and B.
  • I coated all seals in silicone prior to install. I also gave all brass threads a bit of a WD-40 equivalent to prevent seizure.
  • I ultrasonically cleaned most of the parts. I did not put the vacuum breathers in as I think they contain a foam filter that I was not sure how would react to the cleaning. Afterwards I used compressed air to clear out all jets, tubes and crevices.
  • Write down how many turns out the idle screws are set at before disassembling the carbs.
  • Buy a set of JIS screwdrivers. Seriously. Do it.
  • If you have never done this before expect to use 2-3 days including disassembly, cleaning, reassembly, adjustments and documenting of how the parts go together (or just look at my pictures ;)). If you have stripped screw heads or you need additional spare parts, it could take even longer.
  • Be super careful with the soft brass screws. They strip or break easily.
  • Radare's guide on overhauling US carbs was very helpful. Even though the carbs are different, they still have many similarities.

Disassembly
First step is to remove the gas tank and airbox. You will now have access to the carbs.

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Now loosen the clamps on the carb boots and disconnect the two oil hoses going from the engine and onto float bowl 1 and 4 (1 being the leftmost one). You'll also have to disconnect the fuel line and thermoswitch. Drain the carbs (by turning out the drain screws a few turns) and afterwards disconnect the four drain hoses. Also disconnect the throttle cable. Now you just need to pull off the entire bank of carbs. Remove all the carb boots from the intake manifolds... and definitely replace them if they look anything like mine :o

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Put some paper towel or similar into the intake manifolds so you don't drop anything into the engine.

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Now we're ready to clean. Remove the oil hoses.

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Screw off the black plastic top caps and pull out the slide/diaphragm assembly. Inspect. Mine had some black stuff from the slides I think. Note the white plastic part - this is the slide housing. It can first be taken out when the needle jet has been removed - which it is not yet ... so continue! My slide housings were very difficult to get out, but a strong and continuous pull did the trick.

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Once you have done this on all the carbs, turn the bank around and remove the float bowls and inspect the possible dirtiness. I did not expect this clean a carb!

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From here on you'll have to follow the pictures backwards if you need help on disassembly. I now assume you have disassembled all you want to disassemble and everything is clean and ready for assembly.

Single carb assembly
Install the slide housing in the carb body with new seals. If you are using the LiteTek seal kit, that would be the slide housing O-rings SH-001 and OR-018.

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You'll see that it is not flush with the carb throat just yet.

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Prepare the jet housing with a new seal.

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Feed the needle jet through the slide housing.

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Now put the jet housing on the needle jet, while at the same time aligning the jet with the pin in the jet housing.

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Install washer and screw for the needle jet.

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Tighten the screw until the slide housing is aligned with the carb throat (see earlier picture). Do not over tighten. You do not want this to happen. Unless you have a spare parts carb laying around (like I did). Seriously. It doesn't need much torque.

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Install this jet/tube which sits below the main jet.

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Install the pilot jet.

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Find the square-edged main jet seal and install it. That would be the LT OR-004 seal.

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Install the main jet and the choke jet. The main jet is the one with the big orifice.

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Before we install the somewhat more fragile float parts, we'll finish the installation of other parts.
Install the air jet here.

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Assemble the mixture screw like this. The order onto the screw is; spring, washer and O-ring. New washers are included in the LT kit.

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Screw it in until it seats lightly. Then screw it out the number of turns you noted down at disassembly.

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Assemble the choke plunger like this

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... and install it in this orientation

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Now back to the float chamber. Install a new O-ring of the float holder-thingy.

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Assemble the fuel filter and brass cylinder. Install on float holder-thingy.

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Install this assembly in the carb body.

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Attach the float needle to the float and install this with the float metal pin. The pin needs no force whatsoever. It's kept in place by the float bowl (we'll install that later).

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Find the float bowl and install the drain screw. On bowl 4 you must also install the thermoswitch.

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Install the float bowl gasket.

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For demonstration purposes, you can here see how the gasket seals between the bowl and the body. You can also see how the float holder-thingy is held in place by the two strips protruding from the gasket. You should not install the gasket like this - install it in the float bowl as above.

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Installing the float bowls is slightly tricky. You need to get the overflow tube of the float bowl under the float while at the same time getting it past the mixture screw stud. All without using any force that could damage the float assembly.

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Screw in some screws!

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Turn the thing 180 degrees. If you disassembled the needle parts, this is how it goes back.

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Install the needle in the slide and put in the spring, with the plastic thing downwards.

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Install the slide in the carb body and remember to also install a new top cap O-ring. Finally install the plastic cap.

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Screw in some more screws and you're done with the first carb.

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Do all of the steps above three more times and you'll end up with this.

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Bank assembly
Before attaching the carbs to each other, we'll install new seals onto (from top to bottom):
  • Fuel-T and fuel rail connectors
  • Float bowl vents
  • Vacuum breathers
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Install this in carb 1.

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Connect carb 2. Remember to install the big spring between the throttle shafts.

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Before installing carb 3 to the other carbs. Install the throttle cable holder onto carb 3.

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Install the fuel-T and connect carb 3.

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Do as you did with carb 1 and install the same components to carb 4.

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Connect carb 4 and install the long bolt connecting all the carbs. Remember to put the small tube onto the long bolt - just between carb 2 and 3 (I forgot).

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Turn the bank around and install the bolt and metal tube between carb 3 and 4.

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Install the choke slide. Ensure all the choke plungers are catched by the slide. Small plastic slides clicks into carb body 1 and 3.

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Install the bracket with the plastic tube onto carb 1 and then install the other metal tube and bolt that holds together carb 1 and 2.

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Install choke knob and remaining brackets. Note the two screws not fully screwed in yet.

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Install this screw with the spring between the two brackets. Between the brackets goes a metal washer and then a plastic washer on top of that. Hand tighten the screw until you find that the choke knob has a suitable pull/push resistance.

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Install the idle speed screw and the fuel filter in the fuel-T.

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And that's it! Almost...

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I guess you are now full of excitement and would like to hear your engine purring. But you should really check and adjust float height (this is documented on XJR). For these carbs the spec is 3-5 mm above the line marked on the float bowl. I was lucky and all mine were in spec.

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I left the synchronization screws in the throttle shafts at disassembly, so I didn't do any bench syncing. If you didn't you should do that. Afterwards you should do a proper sync (engine running). Again, info about this can be found on XJR. Finally install airbox, block vacuum port on manifold 1 if you are not using your regular fuel tank and also block off the oil hoses if you have not connected them back on to the carbs.

Now fire up that engine!

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Maxnettoz
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Re: Cake's XJ 600 S

Post by Maxnettoz » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:46 am

Awesome write-up and pictures. Worthy of "The Wall" :clap:
Sincere regards,
Maxnettoz

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cake
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Re: Cake's XJ 600 S

Post by cake » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:58 am

Maxnettoz wrote:Awesome write-up and pictures. Worthy of "The Wa :clap: ll"
Thanks. I don't think I have the rights for doing it though.

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Re: Cake's XJ 600 S

Post by cake » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:55 pm

So did any of the work I did to the carbs help?

Well... the carbs was much cleaner than I expected and frankly I don't think the cleaning did anything for the cold start issues I've had. When I opened up the carbs for cleaning I did consider to abort the mission and just put the carbs back on with some new boots. The black stuff near the diaphragms, some cracked fuel seals and the fact that I was all set to undertake a full cleaning, meant that I followed through.

Cold start performance is better now though (still not as good as I'd like) and the clattering noise at idle has also been reduced. It's now apparent that I also have the infamous clutch rattle though. I can't wait to fix it, I think this will be the only thing left that makes funny sounds - but we'll see... I am quite certain that the carb boots was (partly) to blame for both the clattering and cold start issues as they were in very bad shape and would have allowed for additional air to be sucked in.

Lastly I took a photo of the spark plugs. They all looked like this. I reckon they are not perfect-looking.
It looks like carbon deposits to me. Is the mixture/idle screw set too rich? They were all set at 3 1/4 turns out.
I have already bought some new plugs, but I don't want to spoil them if they just end up black too.

Image

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Re: Cake's XJ 600 S

Post by cake » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:26 pm

I've installed some heated grips in order to stretch the riding season a bit, as well as to make it safer on those days when you get caught in the rain. I went for the Oxford HotGrips in the Adventure edition (model OF690). According to Oxford these are 132 mm long and can be cut down to 122 mm if necessary without damaging the heater elements.

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They fitted perfect on the left side.

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It might look like they could have been a few millimetres longer, but in fact they couldn't. If you look at the stock grips, they have a lip in the end. This is to allow it to go over the bar end weight which has a matching larger diameter. When I screwed in the bar end, it only very slightly compressed the new grip.

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Not as good on the right side. A few millimetres more would have been great.

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With the kit comes a bent metal plate as well as a double sided sticky foam to allow for different mounting options of the controller. The best idea I could come up with in order to mount it, was to straighten the metal piece, cut it, and mount it on the clutch.

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Re: Cake's XJ 600 S

Post by TonyKZ1 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:53 pm

Yep, these heated grips work great. :thumbsup: I've got the Oxford Sports model fitted to mine, like you said the grips could be a little longer as mine are even shorter than yours, but I had moved mine over from my Ninja 250. If I need to buy a new pair I'll probably buy the adventure model.
1997 Yamaha Seca II - mostly stock, Racetech upgraded forks, FZ6R rear shock, Oxford Sports Style Heated Grips, Barkbusters Blizzard Cold Weather Handguards, a Scottoiler vSystem chain oiler. My Mileage Tracker Page.

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cake
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Re: Cake's XJ 600 S

Post by cake » Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:22 pm

TonyKZ1 wrote:Yep, these heated grips work great. :thumbsup: I've got the Oxford Sports model fitted to mine, like you said the grips could be a little longer as mine are even shorter than yours, but I had moved mine over from my Ninja 250. If I need to buy a new pair I'll probably buy the adventure model.
I have just tried them on a single ride yesterday and they sure produced plenty of heat. I found that 100% and 75% quickly became too much. Most of the time I ran them on 50%. I think it was around 10 C (50 F) outside and I was comfortable the whole ride (which was a short one though) :)

In your experience in what sort of temperature can can you ride (with these grips) while still being completely comfortable?

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Re: Cake's XJ 600 S

Post by MichaelX » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:23 am

I have the same ones and they are 138mm long, i think sport are 132mm . Stock grips are 140 mm thats why its a gap there, you can move them 2mm to the end of the bars so it covers the bar ends.
Btw did you use the glue from the box? Mine did not stick on the left grip so i have to glue with something else
1997 XJ600N Diversion
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